QUESTION
What challenges does CCHR face in implementing and enforcing Intro 401, and how does it plan on conducting outreach and education?
0:26:44
·
6 min
The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) anticipates challenges in testing for discrimination and conducting outreach due to existing laws and the complexity of financial products.
- CCHR is analyzing how Intro 401 aligns with state and federal regulations concerning discrimination and transparency.
- One major concern is the complexity of testing for discrimination in lending, requiring testers with nearly identical financial profiles.
- CCHR has increased its outreach and education efforts, reaching over 100,000 New Yorkers in fiscal year 23, but faces challenges in conveying information given the complexities in financial expertise.
- Discriminatory lending practice inquiries received by CCHR are minimal, with the highest number of complaints in a year being eight, due to the intricate nature of financial product discrimination and the presence of alternative legal avenues for victims.
Nantasha M. Williams
0:26:44
So what possible hurdles, if any, does CCHR anticipate?
0:26:48
In the implementation and enforcement of intro 401.
JoAnn Kamuf Ward
0:26:55
Thank you.
0:26:56
As always happy to talk about her work and to be with this this committee.
0:27:00
The administration, as I noted, support the intent of the bill to prohibit discrimination issuance of credit and to require creditors to disclose to potential borrowers how their rate is calculated.
0:27:12
I think we're very interested to hear from stakeholders who do this work every day, their perspective on on the bill.
0:27:20
But I will mention just a few of the things that have come up as we do our sort of initial review of intro intro 401.
0:27:30
As was already noted, there is a a fair amount of state and federal regulation both on the anti discrimination side and on the transparency side.
0:27:42
And so part of the work the administration is doing is identifying how law at the local level would fit in with existing protections and to to identify if there's any conflict with those existing existing laws.
0:27:59
I think one from from CCHR's perspective, the work that we do often as I noted in my testimony involves individuals coming to us to file complaints.
0:28:11
We're a file as a right agency, which means any New Yorker has the ability to come to us to file a claim of discrimination, and we are obligated and pleased to be able to serve those New Yorkers.
0:28:24
And to identify if they have a viable claim.
0:28:28
We also do testing in housing employment and public accommodation.
0:28:34
I think one of the concerns CCHR has with the bill is the testing requirements.
0:28:40
We understand from just preliminary conversations that testing in this space is extremely complicated.
0:28:50
There are some hurdles that are much different than the other kinds of testing that we do.
0:28:55
So for example, to identify if someone is giving a differential loan rate on the basis of a protected category.
0:29:02
You would have to have 2 testers with almost identical financial profiles.
0:29:08
Apply for a loan, find out what their credit score is, and then be able to analyze those credit scores to identify if the protected category was the basis for differentiation.
0:29:20
That's both a long process, but would require testers to be able to have a financial profile and identity, which is not something currently that we are able to do.
0:29:29
A lot of our testing in apartment spaces or in employment can be showing up to a housing provider.
0:29:38
Someone from we'll have applicants with very similar profiles, but for a protected category.
0:29:45
So a woman goes to ask for an apartment and possibly has her child with her, and she's told, I'm sorry.
0:29:51
We don't have an apartment.
0:29:53
A single male might go to ask the same housing provider, 3 hours later for an apartment.
0:29:58
They say, yes.
0:29:59
We have one we can show you right now.
0:30:01
That's discrimination potentially on the basis of gender, potentially on the basis of race, and also potentially on the basis of presence of children.
0:30:08
So that's a much different kind of test than I think what's contemplated in this bill.
Nantasha M. Williams
0:30:15
Thank you.
0:30:17
Do you have any thoughts with respect to the outreach and education required by the bill?
JoAnn Kamuf Ward
0:30:24
Sure.
0:30:25
So as you're probably sick of me saying, we really see our prevention and education work as critical part of addressing discrimination.
0:30:35
As has been already noted, there are some lending protections in our law.
0:30:39
Those are part of the outreach and education that we do every day in the housing space.
0:30:45
Our community relations bureau for the past several years, the time that I have been at the commission, have increase their outreach and education efforts every year, reaching more than 100,000 New Yorkers in fiscal year 23.
0:31:00
So we are excited about education in this space.
0:31:03
I think that the challenge is, again, goes back to some of the immense number of laws and regulations and the specifics of financial expertise that that apply in this in this field and identifying who are the right messengers for some of that information.
0:31:21
But it's already part of the work that we do, and we are excited to think about ways to expand that work with counsel, with sibling agencies and with other stakeholders.
Nantasha M. Williams
0:31:33
Okay.
0:31:34
Does CCHR receive any inquiries in relation to discriminatory lending practices?
0:31:39
And if so, could you share how many and what these type of inquiries consist of.
JoAnn Kamuf Ward
0:31:47
I'm not talking to myself.
0:31:49
Yes.
0:31:50
So we we do have these protections.
0:31:52
They're part of our trainings.
0:31:54
I would say this is a very small number of the cases.
0:31:57
That we receive.
0:31:58
In terms of increasing complaints, it's really a handful over the past 5 years.
0:32:04
I think the most we've had in a year is 8, which is a small number.
0:32:08
I think there's lots of reasons for that.
0:32:11
Part of the the reason that we see that is, as I mentioned in my testimony.
0:32:18
New Yorkers have a lot of choices when it comes to addressing discrimination.
0:32:23
A lot of the cases around financial products are handled in courts where you can pull in federal and state law I think another challenge in this space that makes it very hard to regulate is that often individuals who have been who have experienced discrimination in financial products do not realize that until the time when they bring their loan documents that they may have signed.
0:32:47
I don't know how many people here have a mortgage.
0:32:49
I have one I signed millions of pieces of paper.
0:32:52
I don't know what they all say.
0:32:54
It's really complicated, and you might not find out about the course of or discriminatory terms until years after you've been paying off a loan.
0:33:02
So I think those may get a challenge for an agency like ours, which are often dealing with individual acts of discrimination in a particular time frame.
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Would the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection and the Commission on Human Rights consider coordinating on financial and lending education and outreach?
