QUESTION
Why are funds being cut from alternative to incarceration programs, leading to increased expenditure on youth incarceration?
1:18:24
·
5 min
Council Member Lincoln Restler questions Commissioner Juanita Holmes about budget cuts to alternative to incarceration programs and the subsequent increase in youth incarceration costs.
- Council Member Restler raises concerns about significant budget cuts to alternative to incarceration programs under Commissioner Holmes's tenure at the Department of Probation.
- Despite these cuts, there's a 50% increase in spending on youth incarceration, amounting to an additional $20 million.
- Holmes confirms the cuts to specific programs and provides vague reasons for them, mentioning lack of attendance and compliance as issues.
- Restler criticizes the decision to cut effective diversion programs given the rising youth incarceration rates, stressing the negative impact on young people in New York City.
Lincoln Restler
1:18:24
So Since you've come into office and brought in a new leadership team at the Department of Probation, and I I just have to say I had a great working relationship with multiple commissioners over multiple administrations and the senior leadership team at DLP was reform oriented and thoughtful.
1:18:40
I'm very concerned about the change in trajectory that we're seeing under your leadership at the Department of Probation.
1:18:46
We've seen cuts of $700,000 to the impact program, $2,600,000 to next step, $1,600,000 Arches nearly $5,000,000 in cuts to alternative joint incarceration programs under your tenure.
1:18:58
Is that correct?
Juanita Holmes
1:19:00
Sounds about right.
Lincoln Restler
1:19:02
Do you know how much we're spending on increased incarceration of kids in jail in our youth detention secured detention facilities?
1:19:10
No.
1:19:11
It's increased by $20,000,000, a 50% increase from FY 19 to the present.
1:19:18
So over these years, we've seen spending increase by 50% in our jails by $20,000,000 while we've cut by $5,000,000 the programs that serve to keep people out of jail that are effective alternative to incarceration programs.
1:19:31
You said there's no data for the next steps.
Juanita Holmes
1:19:33
Not next steps.
1:19:34
Next steps
Lincoln Restler
1:19:35
There was you said there was no data.
1:19:36
Is that right?
Juanita Holmes
1:19:37
Next steps next steps program was community oriented.
1:19:42
Impact program was never off the ground and running.
1:19:46
So it served it started But when it wasn't for youth, you're you're mentioning juveniles.
1:19:52
Right?
1:19:52
The increase.
1:19:53
That program was not for young people.
1:19:55
The impact would
Lincoln Restler
1:19:56
have wrote up served a 175 young people.
Juanita Holmes
1:19:58
What?
1:19:58
That wasn't for young people.
Lincoln Restler
1:20:00
Implant program would have served a 175 young people.
1:20:02
Are you saying that's not accurate?
Juanita Holmes
1:20:03
Was it for young people?
1:20:04
Yes.
Gale A. Brewer
1:20:05
I thought it was
Lincoln Restler
1:20:05
Of course, it's for young people.
1:20:07
For young people, please put somebody clarified.
Althea Stevens
1:20:09
Who's for young people?
Lincoln Restler
1:20:10
We all know this.
1:20:11
Mhmm.
1:20:11
Come on.
1:20:13
Sorry.
1:20:13
I get too upset.
Juanita Holmes
1:20:14
Well, you're you're you're we'd all do back council, you're saying a 175 young people.
1:20:20
The program was not running, and they and what was stated to me right, coming in the door.
1:20:26
I met what what to throw in at me.
1:20:27
Right?
1:20:28
What was stated to me by, I believe, the former deputy commissioner of administration was that the providers was delaying the start of the program.
Lincoln Restler
1:20:37
I've spoken with cases.
1:20:39
Cases was selected as the provider through your RP process.
1:20:41
Is that correct?
Juanita Holmes
1:20:42
I don't know.
1:20:43
I wasn't Could
Lincoln Restler
1:20:43
somebody testify?
1:20:44
Yes.
Juanita Holmes
1:20:45
It was just cases.
Lincoln Restler
1:20:46
Cases was provide was selected.
1:20:47
They were selected to provide a contract for a 175 at risk young people that would have other that were in family quarters.
1:20:52
Correct.
1:20:54
Just yes or no's, please.
1:20:55
This is the most basic stuff for programs that you all cut.
1:20:58
You should know better.
1:20:59
What what It
Juanita Holmes
1:20:59
was correct.
Lincoln Restler
1:21:00
Okay.
1:21:01
So I'll take a yes on that one.
1:21:03
Cases was ready to provide the services.
1:21:05
They have test they have shared that with my office, with council member Steven's office.
1:21:08
I'm sure with council member nurses off with chair nurses off this.
1:21:11
Mhmm.
1:21:12
Why was the program cut?
1:21:13
A program that was was when youth incarceration rates are skyrocketing.
1:21:17
Why would we eliminate one of the most effective diversion programs in the city of New York.
Juanita Holmes
1:21:21
The program was cut because we were informed that they already had an existing impact program and that one didn't get up and running.
Lincoln Restler
1:21:29
There is no alternative to the impact program.
1:21:31
There is nothing like impact that operates in the city.
Juanita Holmes
1:21:33
I don't want.
1:21:34
I mean, I I just I I don't I disagree.
LuAnne Klauber
1:21:36
Well, you just you said there's
Lincoln Restler
1:21:37
an alternative.
1:21:38
So let's hear from your deputy commissioners.
1:21:40
Was there an alternative?
1:21:41
What other services are being provided to these young cases?
1:21:43
If all you were doing is sending them to jail, No.
1:21:46
That is the only policy that we are seeing.
1:21:48
That is the outcome we are seeing.
1:21:49
The services are being cut and you're sending more kids to jail.
1:21:52
That is what tell me.
1:21:53
I mean, the alternatives that are being provided.
Juanita Holmes
1:21:55
I beg the different counsel.
Lincoln Restler
1:21:56
You said that the alternative to next steps was archers.
1:21:59
You cut $2,600,000.
1:22:01
You testified back to that an hour ago.
1:22:03
The the you cut I'm listening.
1:22:05
And I'm listening to your testimony
Alex Stein
1:22:06
in the Here's in the accuracy of it.
Sandy Nurse
1:22:08
Let her speak.
Juanita Holmes
1:22:09
Here's what I testified to.
1:22:10
When I walked in the door, I was told Archis was 5 days, scaled down to 3 days.
1:22:15
I said, why?
1:22:17
Because young people weren't compliant with attendance.
1:22:21
I said, why?
1:22:22
I have to come up with something that's going to bring them in the door.
1:22:26
Do you think I'm intentionally cutting programs while still creating programs while still being concerned.
1:22:31
I walked in the door and no one ever had a meeting with DOE about kids coming to us undercredited, no education.
1:22:38
Not going to school, not listening to their parents.
Lincoln Restler
1:22:41
I just
Juanita Holmes
1:22:41
I put that in place.
Lincoln Restler
1:22:43
Right?
1:22:43
I just focus on the questions.
Juanita Holmes
1:22:44
A program a program is important.
1:22:47
School is ten times more important, but we are definitely putting programs more programs, the right programs in place.
1:22:56
Okay.
1:22:56
That's what we want for young.
Lincoln Restler
1:22:57
You testified that you were cutting next steps because it didn't have data.
1:23:00
Former DOP staff
Juanita Holmes
1:23:01
reached out to my office.
1:23:02
Said it didn't have the outcomes.
1:23:05
THERE WAS No SUSEMSA OUTCOMES OTHER THAN METRICS, OTHER THAN 60 PEOPLE ATTENDING.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:10
Reporter: IF IT WOULD BE HELPFUL, FORMER THOSE 60 PEOPLE
Juanita Holmes
1:23:13
weren't the 16 people.
1:23:15
So when I say 16 people attending, that means 16 names touched it.
1:23:19
The names might have changed.
1:23:20
They didn't.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:21
I have witnessed this program up close I met with these providers.
1:23:23
This is a highly effective program serving at risk, nitrile youth.
1:23:26
Former view of these apps has sent
Althea Stevens
1:23:28
tons of Demetrics grant outcomes.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:30
That are but you cut $2,600,000 in funding that were serving these aggregates in our nitrogen dominance.
1:23:35
And then you testified today that that program was folded in that you were serving them through arches.
1:23:40
But you cut Arch is by another 1.6000000.
Juanita Holmes
1:23:42
Arches.
1:23:43
Arches.
1:23:43
Arches was not being utilized.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:45
But they're not putting $1,600,000.
1:23:48
Are cut to our now?
1:23:49
Yes or no.
1:23:49
Yes or no.
1:23:50
Was there a peg from 1.6?
1:23:51
Yes.
1:23:52
Thank you very much.
Alex Stein
1:23:53
Mhmm.
1:23:53
So
Lincoln Restler
1:23:53
you I just gotta remind you, commissioner, you weren't under oath.
Alex Stein
1:23:55
I am under oath.
Juanita Holmes
1:23:55
I am under oath.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:56
Deny the things the facts that are real.
1:23:59
It undermines our faith and confidence in you, in this agency, and in this administration.
1:24:04
I am deeply concerned.
1:24:05
I'm deeply concerned.
Juanita Holmes
1:24:05
I'm deeply Your policy is in
Lincoln Restler
1:24:07
the driving up of mass incarceration of our young people in New York City, and I am deeply concerned by your testimony today.
1:24:12
I will be asking the office of general counsel to review its accuracy.
1:24:14
Thank you.
Juanita Holmes
1:24:15
You're welcome.