Q&A
Debate over Chevron's accountability for environmental damage in Ecuador
6:13:21
·
6 min
Council Member Gennaro and Randy Mastro engage in a heated debate over Chevron's accountability for environmental damage in Ecuador. Gennaro insists on the need for accountability, while Mastro maintains his focus on the legal fraud aspect of the case.
- Gennaro argues that Chevron/Texaco caused significant environmental damage and should be held accountable
- Mastro repeatedly emphasizes that Chevron did not admit to causing an environmental disaster
- The debate touches on the distinction between Texaco's actions and Chevron's responsibility
- Gennaro expresses frustration that the legal technicalities don't address the ongoing suffering of indigenous people
James Gennaro
6:13:21
Thank you, Mister Mastro.
6:13:22
Your answer is satisfactory.
6:13:24
Let me just kind of revisit this.
6:13:28
And I'm switching from my long from my distance glasses to my reading glasses.
6:13:35
But what is really central, I think, is the need for entities like Chevron once they admit malfeasance to be held accountable for that.
Randy Mastro
6:13:52
Chefron did not admit that councilment.
6:13:53
Right.
James Gennaro
6:13:54
I I mean, according to legal research done by the council, that was and and this is the information that I have, but not
UNKNOWN
6:14:03
at the end of
James Gennaro
6:14:04
the day.
6:14:04
I have at the end of the day.
6:14:05
Let me just state that you were there's no way to deny that you were a big part of Chevron not having to pay this $9,000,000,000 settlement, which the legal process has deemed a fraud, and and and, you know, Stephen had had his issues, and I get that.
6:14:29
But, you know, here we are, all these years later, and the people that live in that area are still suffering.
6:14:39
And Chevron has not made it has not made those people whole, but done what they needed to do.
6:14:49
And and you were on the team, which involved many lawyers of as a minor thing that were many, many firms were involved, but you were, you know, part of the overall effort to get Chevron off the hook.
6:15:07
So you were part of the team that did that at a very bare minimum, and we can talk about, you know, Donziger and, like, what he did and why he went to jail but he wasn't Chevron that did all this environmental destruction.
6:15:22
And as I indicated in my lead up to this, I I I think the subtleties of the role that you played so far to getting Chevron off the hook are not going to pass muster with New York City's activist environmental justice community.
6:15:41
This is one of the worst environmental injustices that were that has ever been perpetrated, and you stood with the parties that perpetrated that and worked to get them, Chevron, not to pay any judgment.
Randy Mastro
6:15:59
Counseling, I stood for the rule of law and our justice system.
6:16:04
Chevron never admitted to any environmental disaster caused by Chevron because as you said at the beginning of your recitation, it never even drilled in Ecuador itself.
6:16:16
And every court, the technical Please, please, counsel, and every court up to the supreme court ruled the same thing.
6:16:24
Steve Donsigar committed litigation fraud, bribery, extortion, and Steve Donsigar is the reason why that judgment didn't stand.
6:16:33
And I assume you respect the rule of law as much as I do.
James Gennaro
6:16:37
I certainly respect the
UNKNOWN
6:16:38
rule of
James Gennaro
6:16:39
law, and I'm gonna jump in.
6:16:40
I I I I certainly respect the rule of law.
6:16:43
What I don't respect are companies like like Chevron who who put aside the fundamental tenets of the free market, which means you have to pay for the cost of production to bring your product to the marketplace.
6:17:01
And whether it was Mexico or or or or Chevron is a, you know, distinction without a difference because, you know, Chevron was the entity that hired you even though Mexico did it.
6:17:12
And no and no amount of colloquy between you and I can change the fact that that area is still is still the, you know, is still the Chernobyl of of the rainforest.
Randy Mastro
6:17:29
That was Steve Donker's characterization, not anybody else's.
James Gennaro
6:17:33
I I I mean, if And please please understand is still the it's them.
6:17:37
Chevron, Texaco, call it what you want.
6:17:40
You know, they made this happen.
6:17:43
They put together a, you know, dream team of environmental experts in order to not have to, you know, not have to answer or make, you know, restitution or pay a judgment for the environmental degradation that that that they cause, and you stood with them.
6:18:04
And I'm my my my my my practical point here is that, you know, your association with this with this with this with this case is gonna be very difficult for the for for, you know, New York City's environmental justice community to abide.
6:18:24
And I think, as I said before, that that is just a stone fact.
Randy Mastro
6:18:27
K.
6:18:28
The stone fact is that I stood up for the integrity of the justice system.
6:18:34
I exposed a litigation fraud
James Gennaro
6:18:36
That doesn't help the indigenous people.
6:18:38
Please.
6:18:38
Excuse me.
6:18:39
I I'm taking a little bit I'm taking a little liberty here.
6:18:42
It's just like, you know, that does not help the indigenous people who are still suffering at the hands of your client.
Randy Mastro
6:18:47
And that's because Steve Donziger committed litigation for Why don't you ask him?
James Gennaro
6:18:52
Why he committed have done.
6:18:54
Or did not He committed and crime did not create 900 pits of of of of produced water.
6:19:01
He did not destroy the habitat.
6:19:02
He did not destroy these people's lives.
6:19:04
He did not take away you know, their their their their their their livelihood, their their their culture, their their health.
6:19:11
He didn't do that.
6:19:12
He was a bad lawyer.
6:19:13
Okay.
6:19:14
I get it.
6:19:14
But somebody did that, and someone needs to be held accountable.
6:19:17
I knew you were gonna go that way, but how that way
Gale A. Brewer
6:19:20
is the
James Gennaro
6:19:20
truth But but at the end of the day, this environmental this environmental degradation did happen at the hands of your client, and you were central in getting that client off the hook not by standing up for for Justin.
6:19:34
I'm gonna move on to my next thing.
6:19:36
I think we
Randy Mastro
6:19:36
It did not happen at the hands of Chevron, and the Ecuadorian oil company has been drilling ever since.
James Gennaro
6:19:44
I could go on about the Ecuadorian government.
6:19:46
You know, but I'm only but the purpose of this hearing is about you and your involvement with one entity, which is very much involved.
6:19:55
And, you know, certainly, like, the the, you know, the government has its own story.
6:19:59
It's at it it has its own problems, you know, with regard to its people, but you did not represent them.
6:20:05
You represented, you know, Chevron Slash Mexico that did the drilling, and I think that's gonna be problem for the city's environmental justice community.
6:20:13
And Well,
Randy Mastro
6:20:14
they're standing
James Gennaro
6:20:14
up in the integrity of the gun.
Randy Mastro
6:20:16
Missile system.