Q&A
Debate over Mastro's work with Giuliani and controversial policing policies
4:48:52
·
4 min
Jumaane Williams questions Randy Mastro about his work with former Mayor Rudy Giuliani and his stance on controversial policing policies like 'broken windows' policing. The exchange reveals tensions between past practices and current perspectives on law enforcement.
- Williams expresses concern about Mastro's support for Giuliani, both as mayor and presidential candidate
- Mastro defends the 'broken windows' policy, stating it had some successes
- The discussion highlights the ongoing debate about the effectiveness and fairness of certain policing strategies
Jumaane Williams
4:48:52
I think you're an attorney or not, what is question here.
4:48:56
I actually happened to think the previous court counsel was just fine.
4:48:59
And so I think there are other folks like her as well.
4:49:04
I would say, I I was served here.
4:49:06
I I, you know, when I when I know you worked for for mayor Giuliani.
4:49:11
And people work for different administration, so I was trying not to hold as much against you.
4:49:15
But I will say I was disturbed to hear that you campaigned for him before his mayor, and then campaigned for him as president.
4:49:21
Because that says a whole lot more than just working for him as as a as a mayor.
4:49:27
That again doesn't necessarily disqualify.
4:49:28
I just wanna say from from my thoughts about what ideals and and values that you're bringing to here and to hear you talk about broken windows saying because of that, there were some cases that were cracked for lack of better work.
4:49:43
I just wanna make clear, any oppressive policy, you'll be able to find examples, where it may have worked.
4:49:50
The question is, where it had worked, is it worth all of the violations?
4:49:55
And was there another way that you could have gotten to it?
4:49:57
Unfortunately, it comes to black and brown people.
4:49:59
We never answered that question correctly.
4:50:02
So I'm I you're defense of not only administration, but some of the policies that we already know and have known them, by the way.
4:50:08
Giuliani didn't just become Giuliani.
4:50:10
We knew that he was who he was back then.
4:50:12
But it's a continual defense of that.
4:50:14
That caused a lot of concern from
Randy Mastro
4:50:17
I I I think what I said was It's not a one size fits all issue.
4:50:23
There are certain circumstances where it's appropriate and certain circumstances where it isn't.
4:50:27
And
UNKNOWN
4:50:28
Right.
4:50:28
You don't
Jumaane Williams
4:50:28
know what you described was the the defensive broken windows because there were some cases that people were found to have done some.
Randy Mastro
4:50:35
Well, there there were some instances where that's true.
4:50:42
I but I'm not I'm not sure.
Jumaane Williams
4:50:43
If I search everyone in this room right now and probably find something, that should not be here.
4:50:48
That doesn't mean that I should do that.
Randy Mastro
4:50:50
I'm not.
Jumaane Williams
4:50:50
But I'm I'm gonna move forward from broken windows because I don't think you're gonna add anything else that you haven't already
UNKNOWN
4:50:54
seen.
Randy Mastro
4:50:54
Can I please respond to what else?
UNKNOWN
4:50:56
You let
Jumaane Williams
4:50:56
me ask this question.
4:50:57
You can answer how you
Randy Mastro
4:50:58
Of course.
Jumaane Williams
4:50:59
Do you think court counsel should be subject to advice and consent of the counsel?
Randy Mastro
4:51:05
The short answer is yes.
4:51:07
As chair of citizens, you knew, we endorsed the counsel having advice and consent.
Jumaane Williams
4:51:13
Do you think that other appointees such as what the council is asking for should be subject to advice and consent of the council?
Randy Mastro
4:51:21
I was asked the same question previously.
4:51:26
And I I explained the following that those are policy questions, and the role of corp counsel is to to help and defend the policies that are implemented for the city as I explained to the speaker when she asked me the same question.
4:51:45
It comes from a personal perspective that I understand you would like more authority on advice and consent.
4:51:52
I get it.
Jumaane Williams
4:51:53
I Sorry.
4:51:54
Is is yes or no?
4:51:55
Maybe you don't have a decision.
Randy Mastro
4:51:56
It it
Jumaane Williams
4:51:56
it isn't
Randy Mastro
4:51:57
it isn't a yes or no.
Jumaane Williams
4:51:59
This one actually is.
Randy Mastro
4:52:00
But the it it isn't a yes or no because my personal views and advice and consent, you know what my view was on this position because I supported Citizens Unit.
4:52:08
But my personal view on the issue are irrelevant to my ability to be your advocates as to the legality of what you want to do, which I would be able to do.
4:52:20
But as I explained to the speaker, if you would please give me just this moment, okay, was that, you know, I feel the council wants advice and consent, then there appoints a charter revision commission.
4:52:32
You know, both both parties say they had this in mind long before me.
4:52:36
I feel like my nomination is stuck in that middle.
4:52:40
I don't understand why my nomination has become so controversial, but I'm just here as a lawyer.
Jumaane Williams
4:52:45
I'm I'm gonna get to some of that way as well.
Randy Mastro
4:52:47
I'm just I'm just ready to serve, and I will I will, if you pass advice and consent, and that becomes the law, I will defend it, and I will be your your your your service advocate, but I don't What what if any policy question?
4:53:00
I gotta I gotta move forward, man.
4:53:02
Not me.
Jumaane Williams
4:53:02
Sorry.
4:53:03
What if anything would you do if you thought an executive order was not valid or legal?
Randy Mastro
4:53:09
I would advise the mayor that it was not valid or legal.
4:53:12
And I've stood up to mayors and governors and presidents.
4:53:16
I will tell the mayor when I think he's done something, it's illegal.
4:53:19
And I will tell you counsel members if I think you've
Keith Powers
4:53:22
been In
Jumaane Williams
4:53:22
that in that order, would you defend that EU in court?
Randy Mastro
4:53:26
Not if I thought it was indefensible, a public advocate.
4:53:29
I would have to tell the mayor that I thought it was illegal.