Q&A
Council Member Julie Menin questions legal consequences of AI misuse in local elections
1:09:19
·
4 min
Council Member Julie Menin inquires about the legal consequences of using AI to misinform voters in local elections, directing questions to both the NYC Board of Elections and the Campaign Finance Board. The discussion reveals gaps in current regulations and enforcement regarding AI-generated misinformation in political campaigns.
- The Board of Elections lacks direct authority over AI-generated content in campaigns but monitors cybersecurity issues.
- The Campaign Finance Board doesn't have jurisdiction over political advertising content but enforces laws around campaign finance.
- The potential link between AI misuse and eligibility for matching funds is explored, with the CFB open to further discussions on the topic.
Julie Menin
1:09:19
Thank you so much, chair.
1:09:20
Two quick questions.
1:09:21
So as of today, if a candidate is running in a local election and they're found to be using AI to misinform voters, what are the legal consequences?
1:09:35
Oh, I It it's for either of you.
Michael Ryan
1:09:37
Well, I was assuming that was for the campaign finance board because I would say to you, that if it did not directly, touch the process, the internal processes of elections, that the Board of Elections does not have any enforcement authority in that regard.
1:09:53
What we do have, though is, and we keep watch on and work with NYC 3, are cybersecurity issues, that relate to our communication.
Julie Menin
1:10:05
So before we turn to the CFP, so in the instance that I just mentioned, does the Board of Elections even receive complaints about AI?
1:10:13
If someone wants to lodge a complaint, is that something that you receive and that you publish that data?
Michael Ryan
1:10:19
We haven't received any complaints, in in that regard, in my 11 years at the Board of Elections.
1:10:26
We have had other, complaints, and and some that we have generated with respect to the co opting of, of campaign, websites and emails and and such, but not directly related to AI.
Julie Menin
1:10:43
Okay.
1:10:43
And then, for the CFP.
1:10:44
So what are the legal consequences of this conduct?
Paul Seamus Ryan
1:10:47
The Campaign Finance Board doesn't have any jurisdiction over the content of such political advertising.
1:10:53
This agency, the Campaign Finance Board, was created to, enforce and administer the camp the laws around money in elections.
1:11:01
I have personal interest in this issue because my background is 25 years of election law more generally.
1:11:06
So in preparing for this hearing, I talked to colleagues, who had been following this issue quite closely and the litigation around other law similar laws passed in other jurisdictions.
1:11:16
It's a problem, deep fakes.
1:11:18
You know you know, you've described it aptly.
1:11:20
It's a problem everywhere.
1:11:22
Many jurisdictions are wrestling with how to address it effectively, and we're at the stage now where courts are advising, if you'll call it that, their ruling they're judging whether the specific bills, the specific approaches that are being taken are permissible under the First Amendment.
1:11:37
So one of my observations, with respect to your bill, for example, is that it does not include any exception for parody or satire.
1:11:46
I'll I'll back up a step.
1:11:47
If I were writing on a blank slate, I would have written something very similar to what you've, produced and introduced.
1:11:54
It's a great bill.
1:11:55
I only know because other laws like it have been challenged and other plaintiffs have said, what about parody and satire?
1:12:03
And courts have weighed in and have not received favorably bills that lack exceptions for that.
1:12:08
Another, issue in your bill that jumped out at me was the phrase, the intent to influence the results of a covered election or injure the reputation of a candidate.
1:12:19
There's another at least one other state that has a similar bill, but it uses and to connect those 2.
1:12:24
So you have to check both of those boxes, which narrows the scope of application.
1:12:28
It's little technical details like that, but, again, I mentioned in my prepared testimony, the Campaign Finance Board does not have jurisdiction over this issue.
1:12:37
We do have some expertise, both, with me and our legal staff here.
Julie Menin
1:12:41
But you do have jurisdiction over matching funds.
1:12:43
So in the example that I gave, if you have a candidate that is that is now spreading misinformation about one of their opponents using AI, should that candidate receive matching funds?
Paul Seamus Ryan
1:12:54
It there's no, provision, eligibility provision in the current law that comes anywhere remotely close to scrutinizing the veracity of campaign ads as a eligibility criteria, but we would be happy to talk to you and your team about whether that's feasible and desirable policy.
1:13:10
I think it's an interesting idea that, frankly, has not occurred to me before you brought it up.
1:13:14
So Yeah.
Julie Menin
1:13:15
I would I'd highly recommend it.
1:13:16
Would love to talk to you about that.
1:13:18
So thank you so much.
1:13:19
Thank you, chair.
Lincoln Restler
1:13:20
Thanks so much, counsel.
Michael Ryan
1:13:20
And council member, if I could just have one follow-up.
1:13:23
Not with respect to AI, but I had occasion to be subpoenaed to testify in federal court in a prosecution where an individual, ostensibly on behalf of a campaign, sent out text messages with false information regarding how you could vote, more specifically that you could vote by text, to vote for a particular candidate.
1:13:47
The limit of my testimony was can you vote by text in New York State?
1:13:50
No.
1:13:51
Hence, my expert testimony was concluded, but unfortunately, the, the individual, was a young man and he was in fact, convicted in the Eastern District of New York.
1:14:02
So there are tangentially related matters that might not specifically relate to AI, but do relate to other, technology related interference.
Julie Menin
1:14:12
Thank you so much.
Lincoln Restler
1:14:13
You're welcome.
1:14:13
Council member Schulman.
