Q&A
Debate on gang database criteria changes and racial disparities
2:21:45
·
3 min
Council Member Stevens and Deputy Commissioner Gerber engage in a heated discussion about recent changes to the gang database criteria, focusing on self-admission and racial disparities. Stevens expresses skepticism about the effectiveness and fairness of the database.
- Gerber outlines changes to criteria for inclusion in the database, emphasizing self-admission and witness testimony
- Stevens questions the likelihood of individuals self-identifying as gang members during police interviews
- Debate on the racial disparities in the database and its overall effectiveness in crime reduction
- Stevens argues that gang membership itself is not illegal and expresses concerns about surveillance of individuals who haven't committed crimes
- The discussion concludes with Stevens calling for further evaluation of the database's effectiveness and arranging future conversations on the topic
Althea V. Stevens
2:21:45
And what are those changes?
Michael Gerber
2:21:46
Right.
2:21:46
So so for example, we've changed the criteria for someone being admitted to the being put in the database.
2:21:53
So the some of what was being described before in terms of, you know, location, that that sort of thing, you know, these friendship groups.
2:22:02
Like, that does not absolutely not.
2:22:05
Absolutely not.
2:22:05
That that was a that was something that we change.
2:22:08
That changes in writing.
2:22:09
The criteria is about self admission or
Althea V. Stevens
2:22:13
How many young people have come to you and said, hey.
2:22:15
I'm in a gang.
2:22:15
Put me on the database.
Michael Gerber
2:22:18
Self admission when they are when they are being interviewed by detectives.
Althea V. Stevens
2:22:23
So they are telling detectives and I just wanna be clear, and I'll wrap it up here.
Michael Gerber
2:22:27
Yes.
Althea V. Stevens
2:22:27
They are telling detectives, I'm in a gang?
Michael Gerber
2:22:30
There are are there times when people are being are being questioned and they admit to gang membership?
2:22:35
Absolutely.
2:22:36
Yes.
2:22:36
That happens.
Althea V. Stevens
2:22:37
That is very hard for me to believe that they are sitting in a segregation room.
2:22:40
It's like, I'm in a gang and put me in a database.
2:22:42
That's very hard for me to believe.
2:22:44
And and maybe it's happening.
2:22:45
I don't listen.
2:22:46
Stranger things have happened, but I do not believe that if we have about 16 to 1700 people in this database, that 1600 people have self identified and said that I'm in a gang.
Michael Gerber
2:22:54
As you know, I didn't I didn't say they all self admitted, but but It's a majority of them.
2:22:58
It's self admission and multiple at least 2 separate witnesses.
2:23:04
And do people sometimes, when when they're being interviewed by interviewed by law enforcement, admit to gang membership?
2:23:09
The answer to that is yes.
2:23:10
Absolutely.
2:23:11
That happens.
Althea V. Stevens
2:23:12
Okay.
2:23:12
And they might admit someone else being on there or or something like that.
2:23:15
Got it.
2:23:15
But, again, I think that if that hasn't really told me how that has helped improve crime throughout the city.
2:23:21
But we we can talk more about it, and I would love to hear more about the criterias that have been changed and talk about it, because it's still very alarming to me.
2:23:28
Right?
2:23:29
Because the the race disparities are again, it's alarming.
2:23:32
And black and brown people are not the only one in gangs, and that's a problem.
2:23:36
And you cannot tell me by any means that it's helping anything other than showing that you are terrorizing one group of people.
2:23:44
Okay.
Michael Gerber
2:23:44
I I do wanna say, though, to say that we're terrorizing people through the criminal group database
Althea V. Stevens
2:23:49
Yeah.
2:23:49
I'm terrorized by it because I could be on there.
2:23:50
I could feel terrorized by that.
Michael Gerber
2:23:52
Gangs and crews are real.
2:23:53
And sometimes I didn't
Althea V. Stevens
2:23:54
say if they weren't.
Michael Gerber
2:23:55
And sometimes they hurt people.
2:23:56
People get hurt.
2:23:57
Sometimes people are shot or killed, and we have to have a way of keeping track of who is in which gangs are crews.
Althea V. Stevens
2:24:03
Deputy commissioner, we are on the same page.
2:24:04
I am not saying that we don't have gangs.
2:24:06
I do but it's not illegal to be on a gang.
2:24:08
That is not a criminal thing.
2:24:09
If you have done something and you have done a crime, I am not saying that that is okay.
2:24:13
But if people have not committed a crime, they should not be being surveillance.
2:24:17
That's a problem for me.
2:24:18
And so again, the the this is to me is very point blank period.
2:24:22
And I and I understand you're like, oh this is a tool, but if the tool is not doing what we need.
2:24:26
Right?
2:24:26
We just talked about data and having evaluations.
2:24:28
If it's not doing what we needed to do, then why are we why do we have it?
2:24:31
So that's just my take and we'll continue the conversation and I'm gonna leave it there and we're gonna and I'm gonna connect you to the organization so we can talk about how many steps and we're gonna continue to have this conversation about the database.
2:24:41
So set some time up with me.
Jeffrey Maddrey
2:24:42
Okay.
2:24:42
Okay.
Robert F. Holden
2:24:43
Thank you.
Yousef Salaam
2:24:43
Thank you.
2:24:43
Thank you.
2:24:44
We're gonna pass it to council member Holden.
