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Debate over probation officers carrying guns
1:20:36
ยท
4 min
Council Member Restler and Commissioner Holmes engage in a heated debate about the policy of requiring all probation officers to carry guns. Restler expresses concern about the message this sends to young people, while Holmes defends the policy as necessary for officer safety.
- Holmes states that carrying firearms is part of the job description for peace officers
- She cites incidents where probationers have brought weapons to probation offices
- Restler argues that this policy changes the nature of the agency
- The council member requests data on how many officers carried guns before and after Holmes took office
Lincoln Restler
1:20:36
We would love to get some information in writing on that.
1:20:38
And then the last item I'd like to raise is something that's come up at each of your hearings, which is your decision to have all of the probation officers carry guns, which I think is alarming.
1:20:52
I certainly respect and understand that if a probation officer is going into a home for a search, there may be a need for a firearm for their safety.
1:21:00
But why, Why do we want to have why do we want to send the message of every young person who's doing intake at probation encountering a person with a gun?
1:21:10
Why do we want to have every person doing an investigation carry a gun?
1:21:14
Why do we want to turn the Department of Probation into the NYPD?
Juanita Holmes
1:21:18
Well, didn't want to turn it into NYPD but they are peace officers and part of their notice of examination is that they carry firearms.
1:21:27
Peace officers carry firearms.
1:21:28
It's part of their job to qualify for a firearm.
1:21:32
I didn't decide this.
1:21:34
In 02/2002, the former great Commissioner Horn did.
1:21:37
He's the one that put in place and implemented that they'd carry firearms.
1:21:42
So, what I did was follow through.
1:21:44
We had some probation officers going out to do field visits with others and they didn't have firearms.
1:21:50
What that's very, very dangerous.
1:21:53
In addition to
Lincoln Restler
1:21:54
that, we
Juanita Holmes
1:21:55
had several instances where let's take Queens, that ended up in a paper.
1:22:00
A probationer got into a fight with another probationer, sliced him up with a knife.
1:22:05
That same day a probationer came in through the metal detector and was later discovered by the police responding that he had a meat cleaver taped to his chest.
1:22:15
With that being said at 400 Liberty in Brooklyn, the 75 East New York, we had an incident one of our probationers in a program.
1:22:23
He comes out to be met by individual attempting to rob him, fire shots, one hits the probation officer, car in front, probation officers were still upstairs in that particular office.
1:22:36
Yes, it is sometimes where it is dangerous.
1:22:39
We don't want to be met with an active shooter, right, and because whatever it is that may happen, but the bottom line is we have probationers that are carrying weapons even a family court.
1:22:51
Do you know how often we get calls from family court that they're hiding weapons in the grounds, on the grounds, they're watching the cameras and they're identified as our probationers.
1:23:01
They're our probationers.
1:23:03
So we have to keep our probation officers safe.
1:23:06
That's our first and foremost responsibility because if they're not safe we can't do the job.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:11
Yeah.
1:23:11
Under your leadership there's 30% fewer of them and we do need to
Juanita Holmes
1:23:15
I've only been here two years.
1:23:17
You said over five years.
1:23:18
That's not under my leadership.
Lincoln Restler
1:23:20
It's not just your issue, but it is and your plan to restore the headcount is not keeping up with attrition.
1:23:26
So it's going to continue to go down under your leadership for the months and the years to come.
1:23:30
But the key point I want to make is it is it sends a very specific message that whenever young person comes in for intake at the Department of Probation when they're encountering somebody with a gun, that is not the history of the agency.
1:23:44
It is one that you changed.
1:23:46
I appreciate and understand that when somebody is going into somebody's home, there may be a need for a firearm for the safety of the officer.
1:23:51
But to have every officer in every role in this agency carrying a gun is the NYPD ification
Juanita Holmes
1:23:58
of Is Commissioner Horn, former Commissioner Horn of the Department of Probation You changed the policy.
1:24:05
Changed policy.
1:24:05
Part of the notice of examination.
1:24:07
No.
1:24:07
Just part of the policy wasn't being followed.
Lincoln Restler
1:24:09
So how about this?
1:24:10
Our council will follow-up in writing.
1:24:12
We would like for you to share with us how many DOP officers carried guns the day you came into office and how many DOP officers carry guns today?
Juanita Holmes
1:24:19
Well, they all carry guns today.
1:24:20
It should be unless
Lincoln Restler
1:24:21
they have And how many carried off guns the day you started?
Juanita Holmes
1:24:24
I I really have no idea.
1:24:26
My job was to make sure that they were safe.
Lincoln Restler
1:24:28
And anyone on the day is answering that that
Juanita Holmes
1:24:29
we were safe and that they were safe.
Lincoln Restler
1:24:32
So we'll follow-up in writing on that question.
1:24:33
We hope you'll provide it because there has been a significant change in policy since you took office and I don't think it's the right policy.
Amanda Farias
1:24:39
Okay.