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Q&A
Mastro's role in Giuliani administration and state controller audit controversy
5:42:10
·
5 min
Council Member Krishnan questions Mastro about his role as deputy mayor under Giuliani in 1997 and his handling of a state controller's audit. Mastro acknowledges there was a dispute over the scope of the audit and that not all requested documents were submitted.
- Mastro served as deputy mayor under Giuliani in 1997
- There was a dispute with the state controller's office over the scope of subpoenas issued for an audit
- Mastro admits that not all requested documents were submitted, citing issues of privacy and legal authority
- Krishnan references a New York Times article reporting that state auditors were instructed to leave city offices
Shekhar Krishnan
5:42:10
You served as deputy mayor under mayor Giuliani in 1997.
5:42:14
Correct?
Randy Mastro
5:42:15
I did.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:42:16
And in that year, the state controller conducted an audit of city agencies, requesting information on city finances, agency budgets, program spending, and performance metrics.
5:42:27
Is that correct?
Randy Mastro
5:42:29
There was a dispute with the state controller's office over certain subpoenas that had been issued and whether the scope of those subpoenas was excessive.
5:42:38
So your question the answer to your question is there was a dispute as to whether the state controller was entitled to all of that information.
5:42:47
Is a separate question that was very much in dispute.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:42:51
In your role as deputy mayor, to Rudy Giuliani, did you submit all of the requested documents and information for the state's audit?
Randy Mastro
5:42:59
There were issues between the state controller's office and the mayor's office about whether those subpoenas, the scope of them, was sufficient.
5:43:08
That's something that happens in government.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:43:10
Yes.
5:43:10
So it's Mister Matthew.
5:43:11
Just a yes or no.
5:43:11
Did you submit all the documents requested?
Randy Mastro
5:43:14
We submitted many, not all.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:43:16
Thank you.
5:43:17
In your role as deputy mayor to Rudy Giuliani, did you direct city employees to block state inspectors access to city offices?
Randy Mastro
5:43:27
There were certain contested audits where some audits were conducted and some were not.
5:43:34
These are sensitive issues of who has privacy and legal authority to do certain things.
5:43:39
So these are not yes or no answers.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:43:43
I'm gonna read that wasn't an answer to my question, but I'm gonna read from New York Times, March 29 1997.
5:43:49
The headline was mayor orders state auditors to be evicted.
5:43:53
You are quoted extensively in the article, and the article says, quote, senior administration officials instructed state auditors at the health department and the human resources administration to leave.
5:44:04
In your role as deputy mayor, Surudy Giuliani, did you receive 17 separate subpoenas from the state that you did not comply with?
Randy Mastro
5:44:13
We I don't recall the number, but there were issues about whether the state controller was exceeding the scope of his authority.
5:44:20
We worked through those issues, and they ultimately were resolved.
5:44:23
They were resolved ultimately, consensually, counselment, whether
Shekhar Krishnan
5:44:27
or not Mister Mastro.
Randy Mastro
5:44:28
I wanna be clear.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:44:29
That's not uncommon.
5:44:30
Sorry, Mister Mastro.
5:44:31
I don't I don't wanna interrupt.
5:44:32
I wanna give you a chance to ask your questions, but this is a factual question.
5:44:35
Right?
5:44:35
Either you receive the subpoenas or you didn't.
5:44:37
And the public record is clear that you did receive them.
5:44:39
Now whether you thought they were legitimate or not, it's a different question.
5:44:41
But I just wanna let the record reflect that you did in fact receive 17 separate subpoenas, and you chose not to comply with them for your own reasons.
5:44:49
Ultimately, however
Randy Mastro
5:44:50
We we I'm sorry.
5:44:51
That we signed
Shekhar Krishnan
5:44:52
yesterday, Master, ultimately, New York's highest court ruled that your failure to comply or to contest the state controller's audit was unlawful.
5:45:03
Do you still believe that it is legal for the mayor's office to withhold information from the state controller when the state controller is requesting that information pursuant to the law?
Randy Mastro
5:45:14
I would follow the law.
5:45:15
The authority of the state controller wasn't to do certain types of audits.
5:45:20
We complied with others.
5:45:22
You're you're cherry picking your facts councilman.
5:45:25
The the fact is that we thought that some of them exceeded the scope of the state controllers audit authority, and now that issue has since been defined by the New York Court of Appeals.
5:45:35
So, of course, we would follow the law.
5:45:37
But issues like this arise all the time between parallel or subordinate forms of government.
5:45:45
And sometimes the courts resolve them.
5:45:47
I know what the law is that came out of that case.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:45:50
That's correct.
5:45:50
Yes, ma'am.
Randy Mastro
5:45:51
Follow the law.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:45:52
Let me read to you what the law was.
5:45:54
As as interpreted by the court of appeals in regards to this very issue.
Randy Mastro
5:45:58
I said I would
Shekhar Krishnan
5:45:59
say the that's that's right.
5:46:00
So the law said, we find the city's argument unpersuasive.
5:46:05
The legislature has empowered the controller to conduct such audits of city agencies.
5:46:10
It's great that after the fact, you have agreed to follow the law in the court of appeals, but it's also important as the city's chief lawyer to follow the law before it goes to court as I'm sure you'd agree to.
5:46:22
Do you still believe that the mayor's office can refuse to follow the law and sharing information with other government bodies if required to do so.
Randy Mastro
5:46:32
I believe the law is clear now about the breadth of the state controllers audit authority over the city.
5:46:41
At the time, the the position taken by the Giuliani administration Giuliani administration was based on advice and working with corp counsel's office.
5:46:54
Now the law is is defined.
5:46:56
I understand the law, but that was a legal question that was resolved in that case.
5:47:01
Right.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:47:02
Well, Mister Mashal, let's be clear.
5:47:03
The law was always the law, it was clear, your administration, and you personally also had a very different interpretation.
5:47:09
It was ultimately ruled incorrect.
5:47:11
It was let me let me move by.
Randy Mastro
5:47:13
It was not.
5:47:13
The law is established now that whether the state controller had That sweeping scope of authority was not clearly defined at that time.
Shekhar Krishnan
5:47:21
Mister Mastro, let let's move on to the next topic.
5:47:24
Mister sorry.
5:47:25
Counselor Labruor touched on this, and I wanna I wanna go a little bit deeper.
5:47:29
In 1998, Mayor Giuliani proposed deep cuts Sorry.