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DOI's use of correction officers in sexual abuse investigations
3:20:15
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Council Member Sandy Nurse questions Commissioner Jocelyn Strauber about the composition of DOI's investigative team, particularly the use of correction officers and captains detailed from DOC. The discussion covers the duration of their assignments, their identification during investigations, and potential conflicts of interest.
- 12 out of 23 investigators are correction officers and captains detailed from DOC
- These officers typically stay with DOI for a few years or more
- Concerns raised about potential conflicts of interest and the impact on victims' willingness to cooperate
Sandy Nurse
3:20:15
Thank you so much, commissioner.
3:20:17
I have some I have a few questions, not that many, as I mentioned, but I did have a a little bit of a preliminary one probably from my education and awareness.
3:20:28
You said you have 23 investigators that are assigned to DUI's squad 1 that's responsible for overseeing DOC, and the 12 of them are correction officers and captains detailed to you all from DOC.
3:20:43
I I guess I'm I and you also mentioned that, you know, people who might be suspicious or afraid of law enforcement and reluctant to cooperate.
3:20:52
Are those folks who are CEOs and captains ever interacting in in following up in these investigations with people who might have made complaints or allegations?
Jocelyn Strauber
3:21:05
Yes.
3:21:05
They would be included in the staff who respond to Priya allegations.
3:21:09
Okay.
3:21:09
And and just to be clear, they are detailed through an arrangement that we have with DOC, but they report up through the DOE chain.
3:21:17
They are, you know, full DOE investigators.
Tasha Carter Beasley
3:21:20
Okay.
Sandy Nurse
3:21:21
And, yes, they normally detailed with you.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:21:23
I'm sorry.
3:21:23
How long
Sandy Nurse
3:21:24
are they detailed with you?
Jocelyn Strauber
3:21:25
There's no set time limit.
3:21:27
So it's not like they rotate in and out on a regular basis through our arrangement with DOC.
3:21:32
They can remain sometimes until a promotion where whether they will stay or not will be revisited depending on our needs and DOC's needs.
3:21:40
And through our MOU, if there are reasons for them to be recalled to DOC, that can happen.
3:21:46
But but they're not on sort of a rotating very limited time period or anything like that.
Sandy Nurse
3:21:50
Okay.
3:21:50
Like, on average, do people stay with you for, like, a year, a couple years, or is it, like, more, you know I would say
Jocelyn Strauber
3:21:56
it's a it's a few years or more for most people.
Sandy Nurse
3:22:00
And are they in uniform by chance when they're interacting with these folks?
3:22:04
Oh, sorry.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:22:05
No.
3:22:05
They're they're not in DOC.
Sandy Nurse
3:22:06
Okay.
3:22:07
I'm asking because I don't I'm I'm just No.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:22:09
And I was I was looking back to check with our acting inspector general.
3:22:12
Confirm my understanding that they're not in uniform.
3:22:16
They may be wearing clothing that identify them in some way depending on their particular assignment, that day as DOI employees, but they're not wearing sort of DOC uniform.
Sandy Nurse
3:22:24
So if they were to interact with someone who's filed an allegation in the invest in their in the investigation follow-up or in the process somewhere, would that person know that this person is is a correction officer?
Jocelyn Strauber
3:22:37
Not necessarily know.
Althea Stevens
3:22:44
Got it.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:22:44
So as as was just explained, they would know that they're an investigator.
3:22:48
Now they may give their title.
3:22:50
Their title would be captain.
3:22:52
So in that sense, they they would be identifying themselves as part of, you know, as as as a corrections employee.
Sandy Nurse
3:22:59
Okay.
Tasha Carter Beasley
3:23:00
That's not because
Jocelyn Strauber
3:23:00
that doesn't happen in any way.
Sandy Nurse
3:23:01
I understand.
3:23:02
I'm just curious what the visibility of that is to someone who might have made an accusation, and they're getting an investigator come that, you know, I I I think that there might be it's interesting.
3:23:16
It's interesting to learn about this because I just I I wonder the how effective it can really be.
3:23:24
As if if you work for if you're a correction officer and you know that at some point, you might go back, you might be promoted up, back at DOC.
3:23:33
These are your these are your people.
3:23:34
Like, these are the people you rock you have a union, you know, there there is as someone who grew up in a military and and knows what it means for people in uniform and how they really, like, lock ranks on each other and hold each other.
3:23:50
It could be a situation where there's a lot of space for problematic activity is what I would say.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:23:58
So, I mean, I think it's it's I I totally take your point and understand the concern.
3:24:02
I will say that these are with our other, you know, DOI investigators, the officers that prosecute our cases and make arrests for contraband that are, you know, part of the fact finding investigations that result in disciplinary referrals.
3:24:16
So we certainly have not seen and would not tolerate any investigators with NDOI who we felt were not aligned with our mission, but we're actually there to protect fellow officers.
3:24:28
And we have not we have not seen that, but I certainly take your point that any identification associating someone with the corrections office could be concerning to a victim.
3:24:38
I don't think we've had that experience in Yeah.
3:24:41
You know, but but I but I certainly understand the truth.
Sandy Nurse
3:24:43
Or it might be unknown to you all.
3:24:45
Correct.
3:24:46
Because of the nature of it.
3:24:47
But I I guess I'm wondering during I guess, yeah, I'm just curious why the the history of why why CEOs in there.
3:24:55
Why not?
3:24:56
Just civilian staff doing investigations as opposed to people who might be detailed out for a year or 2 and then come back, you know, biting their time.
3:25:06
I'm really curious why it wouldn't just be a civilian staff that are, you know, trained investigators.
Jocelyn Strauber
3:25:12
Yeah.
3:25:12
It's it's a good question.
3:25:14
And we have we have different arrangements throughout the agency in terms of sort of what we call on loan staff that are employees of other agencies, so we don't have that in all of our squads, but we have it in many squads, not just EOC.
3:25:29
The benefits of it are having officers who really understand the internal workings of an agency, not just from an oversight perspective, and it's our obligation to understand all the agencies we oversee.
3:25:44
But from an entity that's sort of as complex and multifaceted as DOC, we have found it helpful to have officers who have worked in the facilities themselves.
3:25:55
And for the most part, although I can't give you sort of for each officer that we have, These are folks who are in with NDOC, many of whom have had have have worked in the capacity as investigators.
3:26:07
So, you know, that's that their work in DOC has been to investigate misconduct with NDOC.
3:26:13
We heard a lot earlier about DOC's own ability to do that through SIU, etcetera.