Max Bookman
2:21:57
I'm an attorney with the Alliance, but, in my private practice, I also represent, small businesses, in a number of matters, including, summons violations.
2:22:06
And we've been talking about business fines.
2:22:08
I wanna talk about an aspect of business fines that is maybe going unnoticed, which is a problem.
2:22:13
And it has to do with Oath, the Office of Administrative Trials and Hearings, where all the summons fines summonses get get adjudicated.
2:22:20
About 2 years ago, Oath made a small but incredibly consequential change, which is driving up business fines.
2:22:28
And it it has to do with a cumbersome and confusing process related to challenging those those summonses.
2:22:34
Before COVID, it was easy.
2:22:36
You got a summons.
2:22:36
There was a date on the summons.
2:22:38
You showed up to court on your date, and you could challenge your summons at a hearing, or you could, pay the fine right then if you wanted to.
2:22:46
During COVID, understandably, they had to move to a remote hearing system.
2:22:51
Since COVID, they've kept the remote hearing system, which has a lot of convenience to it.
2:22:56
Remote hearings are good for small business owners.
2:22:58
But these summonses are filled with fine print, and it's not made clear to small business owners that you are, a, required to have a remote hearing.
2:23:08
So people are still showing up to Oath and being turned away because they're saying, oh, sorry.
2:23:13
You're supposed to have a remote hearing.
2:23:15
But, b, more importantly, Oath has created this extra step where when you get a summons and you wanna have a hearing, which must be remote, you've got to contact Oath in advance to to to schedule that hearing in advance of the date on your summons.
2:23:28
So if your summons says, December 1st, is your hearing date, if you, call them on, the, you know, November 29th, they're gonna tell you, sorry.
2:23:39
It's too it it's too late.
2:23:40
You're you have you were supposed to call earlier.
2:23:43
So it's cumbersome and confusing.
2:23:45
You get this tiny window between set 3 to 7 days to schedule your hearing.
2:23:48
And what we're seeing seems like a silly little thing, really in the weeds.
2:23:52
What we're seeing is a massive increase, at least anecdotally, in the number of defaults.
2:23:57
People who want to go to a hearing and challenge their summons, but are unable to because they're basically locked out of the hearing.
2:24:04
It's it's something that's deserving of oversight.
2:24:06
And we think that if you request from Oath data on the number of defaults, default decisions since they enacted this new policy, we'd be shocked to see if if it hasn't skyrocketed because of this.
2:24:17
It it's it's it's deserving of oversight.
