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Debate over reported numbers of outdoor dining participants
2:17:46
·
3 min
Council Member Restler and DOT officials engage in a heated debate over the reported numbers of restaurants participating in outdoor dining programs, both past and present. The discussion reveals discrepancies in the data and interpretations.
- DOT claims 80% of applicants (about 2,603 restaurants) are currently able to operate
- Restler challenges DOT's figures, citing previously reported numbers of up to 13,000-14,000 participants
- DOT argues that the higher numbers may include businesses that signed up but never set up or went out of business
Lincoln Restler
2:17:46
4,000 applications.
2:17:47
At the time that the open dining program season began in an what is an unfortunate seasonal program, and I really did appreciate chair Minnan's remarks earlier about her support for a year round program, I certainly agree with her on that.
2:18:01
547 21 Roadway Dining restaurants had been approved.
2:18:05
547 had received conditional approval.
2:18:08
So that's what?
2:18:08
7% of the height of the peak of the outdoor program.
2:18:12
Is that bureaucratic challenges from DOT?
2:18:15
If I recall correctly, in the negotiations over this bill, one of the mayor's office's top priorities and the commissioner's top priorities was for DOT to own this program.
2:18:24
This was really important to you all that you wanted to be the lead on outdoor dining.
2:18:27
Am I right?
2:18:29
So why?
2:18:30
Is it bureaucratic challenges and and limitations that have only 7% of restaurants receiving conditional approval at the beginning of the outdoor dining season?
Margaret Forgione
2:18:41
So let me clarify that as we speak, 80% of the restaurants that have applied are able and are setting up as
Julie Menin
2:18:48
a So still
Margaret Forgione
2:18:49
months into the we have the vast majority of the restaurants.
2:18:53
And what we've discussed here today is that we have a number of requirements set between the city charter and the local law that that do add to the length of the process.
Lincoln Restler
2:19:03
Let's just drill down on the numbers.
2:19:05
So 4,000 is the number you said applied.
2:19:08
80% of that 4,000 have received conditional approval.
2:19:12
Is that am I using the
Julie Menin
2:19:13
received some form of approval.
2:19:14
Do I have the
Lincoln Restler
2:19:14
right denominators numbers?
Margaret Forgione
2:19:17
So we have basically 2,603 restaurants are able to operate right now.
Lincoln Restler
2:19:23
Okay.
2:19:23
So that's not 80% of 4,000.
Margaret Forgione
2:19:25
So Well, and I can explain, and I ran through these numbers earlier.
Lincoln Restler
2:19:28
So twenty six hundred and three
UNKNOWN
2:19:29
out of
Lincoln Restler
2:19:29
thirteen thousand was our peak at the height of COVID.
2:19:32
Is that right?
Margaret Forgione
2:19:33
No, council member.
2:19:34
Let me explain this.
2:19:35
At the height, it was between 14,000 restaurants around
Lincoln Restler
2:19:40
the region.
2:19:40
That was peak?
Margaret Forgione
2:19:41
No.
2:19:41
That was the peak.
2:19:42
And what I'll tell you about the 13,000 number, those are restaurants who may signed up.
2:19:45
They may or may not have set up.
2:19:47
We don't know.
2:19:48
They may have gone out of business.
2:19:50
That was not
Lincoln Restler
2:19:51
the largest number in the last time.
2:19:53
Don't under you're saying
Margaret Forgione
2:19:54
that So what I'm telling you is that between six and eight thousand businesses had dining setups, and we have about 4,000 applications to date.
2:20:04
So we actually have quite a good percentage The
Lincoln Restler
2:20:06
data, and that has been widely reported in just about every outlet in the city of New York, that up to 13,000 establishments have participated in outdoor dining, that's inaccurate.
Margaret Forgione
2:20:15
What we what we explained is at the height, it was six to 8,000, and 13
Lincoln Restler
2:20:18
So why is there such an extraordinary discrepancy?
2:20:20
This has all been under DOT's purview.
2:20:22
Why would only half as many?
Margaret Forgione
2:20:23
13,000 at some point may have signed up to participate in the program, but we don't think there was ever a time that 13,000 were set up at that moment.
Rick Rodriguez
2:20:32
Okay.
2:20:33
I believe the Hospitality Alliance also referenced the 14,000 number in their test.
Lincoln Restler
2:20:37
As the peak at the end, and I believe they referenced that number at the conclusion of the COVID period.
2:20:42
That was the number that was in effect.
Rick Rodriguez
2:20:43
And and it friendly.
Robert Guarino
2:20:44
Not at end.
Rick Rodriguez
2:20:44
Was not the end of.
2:20:45
It was during the peak.
Lincoln Restler
2:20:46
Right.
2:20:47
That's not what their testimony says, but beside the point, their testimony references the 13,000 figure that we're all familiar with that has been widely reported in the press that's been noted about.
2:20:55
So you're saying the 13,000 figure is inaccurate?
2:20:58
That never we didn't have third or we had 13,000 restaurants over the course?
Rick Rodriguez
2:21:01
Number for the in terms of, like, the number of applications that were received.
2:21:04
So the That might not be the useful number for the purposes of calculating the success at this point in time.
Lincoln Restler
2:21:10
So even still, let's use your numbers, which I would argue with and I don't I'm I'm not really sure at all are accurate, but we'll accept your numbers that a peak of, let's say, 8,000 was the total number that operated at any given time.