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Debate over police discretion and its impact on racial disparities in traffic stops
1:28:58
·
109 sec
The exchange between Council Member Cabán and NYPD's Josh Levin intensifies as they debate the role of police discretion in racial disparities during traffic stops. Cabán argues that discretion is being used as a 'weapon' to criminalize Black and brown drivers disproportionately.
- Levin attempts to explain police discretion using an example of leniency
- Cabán pushes back, arguing the example doesn't explain the racial disparity in searches
- The debate touches on potential biases in officers' perceptions of 'furtive' or 'erratic' movements
- Cabán challenges Levin to explain why Black drivers are perceived as more dangerous or suspicious
Josh Levin
1:28:58
Well, since there's no way to review, at least right now in this moment, every single stop that is contemplated in this vehicle arrest report, I cannot answer that.
Tiffany Cabán
1:29:06
Do know that cops have discretion.
Josh Levin
1:29:08
If you you keep using this like it's some weapon let me make sure to clarify for you.
1:29:12
Yes.
Tiffany Cabán
1:29:12
Of course.
1:29:13
A weapon for the police force to continue to disparately criminalize black and brown drivers.
1:29:18
It is.
1:29:19
It is a weapon.
Josh Levin
1:29:19
Let me
Tiffany Cabán
1:29:20
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Josh Levin
1:29:21
So let me explain, right, that, of course, they have discretion.
1:29:25
If you're talking to a human being and they're like, I'm trying to get to my daughter's recital.
1:29:29
I didn't mean to go eight miles an hour over the speed limit.
1:29:31
I want an officer to be able to have a conversation with that person and choose education.
Tiffany Cabán
1:29:36
That's a really beautiful example but does not explain why black drivers are being searched 10 times more than white drivers.
1:29:43
What is it?
1:29:45
Are black drivers behind the seat acting more dangerously?
1:29:51
Do all of those black drivers have weapons that are visible to the naked eye when the officer approaches?
1:29:57
Or is it the officer's discretion in what they're describing or or seeing as, quote unquote, furtive or erratic movement?
1:30:05
Right?
1:30:05
Like, we want you wanna dig into DeBoer?
1:30:07
We could dig into DeBoer.
Josh Levin
1:30:08
Let's do it.
1:30:09
Have you watched Body worn?
1:30:10
I know you have as
Tiffany Cabán
1:30:11
a Yes.
1:30:11
I
Josh Levin
1:30:11
have.
1:30:11
Vendor.
Tiffany Cabán
1:30:12
Right?
1:30:12
So but explain to me why the disparity.
1:30:14
Just Have you have you ever
Josh Levin
1:30:16
watched a Body worn camera where you're like, oh, I think I understand what the police officer's talking about in their paperwork?
Tiffany Cabán
1:30:22
Sometimes.
1:30:23
Sure.
Josh Levin
1:30:24
There is Does it
Tiffany Cabán
1:30:25
count for 10 times are you saying that officers feel that way around black people more often than not?
1:30:31
You're making my point for me.
Josh Levin
1:30:33
What I'm saying is
Tiffany Cabán
1:30:34
You should probably stick to answering the question of why is there a disparity between the use of force and the search and seizure of black and brown drivers versus white drivers.
1:30:46
That's what I want the answer to.
Josh Levin
1:30:47
So council member, what I'm saying is that any comment that explains a massive type of analysis in a quick forty five second explanation is not only inaccurate, I would have no faith in it, but also it's a disservice to you.