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Q&A
Spatial concerns and impact on brick-and-mortar businesses
2:04:20
·
4 min
Council Member Julie Menin questions the Street Vendor Project representatives about the spatial implications of increasing vending licenses and the potential impact on brick-and-mortar businesses. The vendors argue that there is enough space, suggest that legal permits might lead to better distribution of vendors, and contend that different types of businesses can coexist while benefiting local economies.
- SVP argues that legal permits might reduce concentration in prime locations
- They claim that vendor costs are proportionate to the space they occupy
- SVP cites a study showing increased produce sales in bodegas after introduction of green carts
Julie Menin
2:04:20
Okay, just a couple questions that I have.
2:04:24
So do you think there is enough legal space for vending if the number of licenses each year increase substantially?
2:05:20
What impact would this have to the brick and mortar small businesses?
2:05:27
Increasing the cap.
2:05:28
So if the brick and mortar small businesses that are paying rent and sometimes business interruption insurance and myriad different costs, what impact would it have on them?
Matthew Shapiro
2:04:33
Yes.
2:04:35
One thing that I always think about is right now food vendors are paying on the underground market $15,000 20 thousand dollars to use another person's permit.
2:04:46
They're stressed about that, so they're trying to recover as much money as possible.
2:04:51
So, maybe they think they need to be in the most prime location.
2:04:54
If vendors have the opportunity to have their own permit, not pay that $15,000 pay a more reasonable amount directly to the city, I might add, they probably won't stress as much to have that prime location where every other vendor wants to be and perhaps spread out a bit and go to those areas where there is not as much vending because they won't be in the whole fifteen or twenty ks and be constantly thinking about recouping that money.
2:05:26
What?
2:05:38
Well, vendors also pay costs.
2:05:40
They have to pay for their carts.
2:05:41
They have to pay licensing and permitting fees.
2:05:43
They have to pay commissary storage fees.
2:05:45
They don't pay nearly as much as brick and mortars do.
2:05:48
That's correct.
2:05:49
But they also get a lot less.
2:05:51
For a brick and mortar, they have a few thousand feet, a big store 10,000 feet.
2:05:56
They pay a lot more, but they get a lot more.
2:05:59
A vendor gets at most 10 feet of space on the sidewalk, and they pay a lot less.
2:06:03
So they should get a lot less.
2:06:04
So, we believe that it's a fair you know, what they're what they're paying is proportionate to what they're getting in return.
2:06:10
There's all different types of business in New York City.
2:06:12
There's big grocery stores.
2:06:13
There's small produce stores.
2:06:15
There's farmers markets.
2:06:16
There's street vendors.
2:06:17
All of these different types of businesses have always existed, and they'll continue to exist side by side.
Mohamed Attia
2:06:22
And if I may add, council member, just one little thing here with the competition.
2:06:27
Back in 02/2008, the Bloomberg administration created a green card program.
2:06:32
There was a huge opposition from the grocery stores and the bodega owners saying that creating this program would pretty much kill their business selling fresh produce.
2:06:41
However, years later, a study showed that the sale of fresh produce in these bodegas increased by 20.
2:06:50
So if we're looking at the economic impact, having more vendors in neighborhoods bring more foot traffic, bring more economic mobility into these neighborhoods and into these sidewalks that benefits everyone.
2:07:01
At the end of the day, if there are some small businesses who are concerned about competition, we heard earlier from DCWP that it's not the city to regulate based on competition.
2:07:11
You cannot say, sorry, bodegas.
2:07:13
You cannot be within 1,000 feet from supermarkets.
2:07:16
You cannot say, sorry, brick and mortar restaurants.
2:07:20
You cannot be within 500 feet from McDonald's.
2:07:23
This is not the city's job.
2:07:24
But sadly, this is the main drive of the conversation because the city's taking sides.
2:07:30
And this is illegal.
2:07:32
If we will take this to court, if the caps are placed on the licenses and permits based on competition to curb the competition, we should be taking the city to court.
2:07:43
But the city never said that.
2:07:44
The city never put on the record that they are keeping the caps only for the competition reasons.
2:07:50
They are saying it's a public safety issue.
2:07:53
However, years later, after they placed the caps, in 1995, a group of military veterans sued the city and they want access to unlimited general vendor licenses.
2:08:03
The public safety is still doing pretty well.
2:08:05
The sky hasn't fallen.
2:08:07
The vendors are not packed on every sidewalk.
2:08:10
The system is still working, and there is no limit.
2:08:13
As of now, there are about 1,200 veterans who own merchandise vendor licenses.
2:08:19
If 10,000 veterans walk tomorrow to DCWP office, they are entitled to receive that license immediately, and hopefully public safety will not