Your guide to NYC's public proceedings.
Q&A
Commissioner Savino, Ben Weinberg, and Susan Lerner discuss even-year elections, open primaries vs. nonpartisan systems, and recall concerns
1:58:23
·
6 min
Commissioner Diane Savino questions Ben Weinberg (Citizens Union) and Susan Lerner (Common Cause) on potential partisan effects of even-year elections and the nuances of open primaries versus nonpartisan systems.
Weinberg argues partisan impact is minimal and turnout benefits democracy; both discuss various models.
Savino raises concerns about wealthy interests potentially weaponizing recall elections (post-Citizens United), which Lerner acknowledges while still favoring direct democracy. They also touch upon different types of open primary systems.
- Debate on whether even-year elections favor Democrats in NYC; Weinberg suggests minimal partisan impact.
- Discussion of different primary reform models: open primaries (allowing independents) vs. top-two vs. nonpartisan.
- Concerns raised about the potential for recall elections to be manipulated by special interests.
Julie Won
1:58:23
I'm so happy to see both
Diane Savino
1:58:24
of you, Ken, and I'm sure we'll have more discussion in April on some of the ideas you have around forming the removal process for an executive in the city.
1:58:33
I wanna hit on two issues that both of you talked about.
1:58:36
The issue of saying of moving elections to the evening years.
1:58:41
It's been attempted in other parts of the city.
1:58:42
I think it was ruled to be unconstitutional because it requires an act of the legislature and then a constitutional amendment.
1:58:48
But the concern that was raised in those localities was that in a city where people are already concerned about one party rule, it might happen to belong to that party, but not everybody does.
1:58:58
And as we're seeing from enrollment numbers, more and more people are disenrolling the Democratic Party for a bunch of reasons, which we don't go into tonight.
1:59:07
But if you if you move it to even your elections, those of us who have worked on elections, we know that you have a higher turnout of Democrats in New York City.
1:59:17
So the argument would be if if more and more people are walking away from a party, but we're now rigging rigging the system so that it favors Democrats, how do you argue against them?
1:59:28
What's your what's your what's your argument against doing just that?
Ben Weinberg
1:59:33
First of mention on that court case has been ruled unconstitutional by lower courts, but the it's before the court of appeals, and it has had to
Richard R. Buery Jr.
1:59:40
be heard by the court of appeals.
Ben Weinberg
1:59:45
I would say two I'll respond two ways.
1:59:48
First, the political context around in around New York State is different than the political context in New York City.
1:59:55
I'm I'm not sure that increasing or doubling or tripping voter turnout in New York City would have a huge impact on the identity of the winning party.
2:00:10
There's been interesting studies on the political impact or partisan impact of this shift because it has been done in several actually, it's been done in over a hundred jurisdictions, but in big cities.
2:00:22
To summarize, the truth is that there hasn't been a big change in terms of who eventually wins those even year elections after we move them to even years.
2:00:33
The other thing I would say is that another argument is that low turnout elections actually are the ones that allow, you know, quote unquote special interest to gain more power.
2:00:45
Right?
2:00:45
So if we vote our vote for our mayor, our council, everyone in city government by 60% turnout.
2:00:54
We just respect the will of the
Richard R. Buery Jr.
2:00:55
board.
2:00:56
So More votes.
2:00:58
Following up
Dr. Lisette Nieves
2:00:59
on that.
2:00:59
Okay.
2:01:00
One of the
Diane Savino
2:01:00
other issues that came up with the previous charter vision hearing, we didn't take it on last time, but I it is an issue that has kind of risen to the top in a lot of localities, the issue of either open primaries and or nonpartisan elections.
2:01:15
I've never quite understood what an open primary is.
2:01:19
Why not just move to nonpartisan elections, eliminate the primary process, saves we're worried about saving the board of elections money.
2:01:25
We just move to the general election where everybody could vote, and and why not do that?
2:01:29
Why won over the?
Ben Weinberg
2:01:32
Well, I'll say I'll say first, you know, we debated internally whether most cities around the country have completely nonpartisan elections.
2:01:44
You're not allowed to put party affiliation on ballot.
2:01:47
We do feel that putting that party affiliation on the ballot does give some indication to voters who that who that candidate is.
2:01:54
We also think parties should be able to endorse or support specific candidates.
2:02:00
So that is why we specifically did not support a full nonpartisan election.
2:02:04
Now to the question of whether a primary or not a primary, it's true that, you know, many jurisdictions with branches supporting, for example, have only one election.
2:02:14
It could be general, but it's some time other time in the year, but one election.
2:02:20
But there are other systems out there.
2:02:23
Seattle, Washington are about to do a similar talk to voting.
2:02:27
So in that situation, voting would just be the primary of voting.
2:02:31
We're just gonna minimize the field for two two candidates until they will run-in the general.
2:02:38
So I don't know if there's a current answer, to be honest.
Diane Savino
2:02:41
I think we any of us do.
2:02:43
But that that I definitely what you you have to say, Susan, but I do have one more question, and I don't wanna hold everybody on because we have 30 other people that wanna talk to us tonight.
2:02:51
On the issue of recall, are you not at all concerned that in an era of post Citizens United where extraordinarily wealthy people can influence the election, that someone could be behind in recall for any elected official, mayor, senator, governor, it doesn't matter who it is.
2:03:06
And and and because we have seen that happen in other states.
2:03:09
Are you not at all concerned about something like that happening?
Susan Lerner
2:03:11
So I think it's always a concern.
2:03:15
That's why my organization is a strong proponent for correcting the mistake that is the Citizens United decision.
2:03:24
But, you know, there are also issues regarding the removal process that, you know, has been problematic and that does not reflect necessarily the will of the people.
2:03:36
So, again, would favor more direct democracy rather than less.
2:03:44
And I I do wanna say in terms of the open primary, we are not necessarily endorsing the top two.
2:03:51
We are still looking at it.
2:03:53
There are various ways to do this.
2:03:55
And our study of unaffiliated voters surprised me with a number of unaffiliated voters who actually said, I don't wanna be part of a political party, but I understand why there are party primaries.
2:04:07
Because if you are part of a part party, you should be able to control what your party does, and that gives the party people an opportunity.
2:04:16
So there are forms of open primaries which do allow unaffiliated voters to participate that we talked about in the last charter revision commission.
2:04:27
Again, I think this is absolutely an important discussion and is one that I think should continue over time.
Richard R. Buery Jr.
2:04:36
Any further questions for the panel?