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Q&A
Commissioner Savino and John Ketchum debate nonpartisan versus open primary models
0:55:34
·
7 min
Commissioner Diane Savino shares her evolving views on nonpartisan elections since the 2003 ballot measure, decrying current partisanship.
She asks John Ketchum to compare NYC's nonpartisan council special elections with state specials where party lines appear; Ketchum discusses ranked-choice voting's informational burden and reiterates his preference for systems enhancing general election competition.
Savino questions Ketchum's preference for nonpartisan primaries over open primaries where unaffiliated voters could participate in a major party primary, arguing the latter directly addresses the disenfranchisement of 1.1 million New Yorkers.
Ketchum cites concerns about potential "raiding" or interference in open primary systems as a reason to favor nonpartisan models where all voters participate on the same ballot from the outset, though Savino suggests a semi-open model (only unaffiliated voters choosing) could mitigate interference risks.
- Savino now views the 2003 nonpartisan proposal more favorably due to increased partisanship.
- Ketchum sees trade-offs in RCV and prefers electoral systems maximizing general election competitiveness.
- Savino advocates for open primaries allowing unaffiliated voters to participate in the dominant party primary.
- Ketchum prefers nonpartisan primaries, citing potential interference issues in open primary models.
- Different types of open primaries exist (semi-open, fully open).
Diane Savino
0:55:34
Thank you.
0:55:35
So I have a lot of questions, so I'm gonna try and start from the top.
0:55:40
First, I I I think I agree with you technically on the idea that, even your elections require a constitutional amendment.
0:55:47
So we'll we'll lay it at that.
0:55:49
I mean, perhaps we could explore the idea of a question saying, if then, would we be able to move to even your elections?
0:55:55
And that might be a question for the Charter Revision Commission to put forward to voters.
0:55:59
But on the bigger issue of the let me just say this.
0:56:02
Twenty some odd years ago, I was involved in a campaign to to kill the ballot initiative that Mike Bloomberg put forward, and I think it was two it was more than that, 02/1933.
0:56:12
To have nonpartisan elections, which is not what you're suggesting.
0:56:17
And I will publicly say he was right then, not for the right reason, and we were wrong.
0:56:23
And if you and the reason I say that is because in the past twenty some odd years, we have seen the complete deterioration of the body politic, and largely because of the bitter partisanship that exists between the two major parties that essentially control our election process.
0:56:37
And having been a senator who ran on more than one party line over the years, I can attest to that we were all part of that because we have we're in we were invested in the continuity of that.
0:56:48
I think we have, with us tonight two city council candidates in a special election that will be appear on the ballot.
0:56:54
And so I wanna ask you a question.
0:56:56
The New York City special election process for the council is a straight nonpartisan election.
0:57:02
While they can be supported by the party that they belong to, those ballot lines will not appear on the ballot.
0:57:07
They have to create a ballot line, and I I should know what their ballot lines are.
0:57:11
I don't know.
0:57:12
But the in the state when a state has a a vacancy in the assembly or the senate and they hold a special election, it is the party line that appears under because you're the party's candidate.
0:57:26
So Right.
0:57:27
So so which model do you think makes more sense?
John Ketchum
0:57:31
Well, the 2019 charter amendment Mhmm.
0:57:34
Applies also to, special elections, and therefore, you have ranked choice voting in that as Now, it's hard to every electoral system has trade offs.
0:57:45
Right?
0:57:46
Ranked choice voting itself has trade offs.
0:57:49
And if you think about just from the voters' perspective, for example, ranked choice voting imposes a pretty high informational burden on voters.
0:57:59
It it requires them to know enough about five different candidates in a city council election.
0:58:06
That could be pretty difficult if there are neighborhood figures, right, that don't get a lot of press, especially given the struggles that local journalism has had.
0:58:16
And so, their you know, ranked choice voting has certain upsides for sure, But, in terms of how it imposes this informational burden, this knowledge burden on voters, I think it does leave some some things to be desired.
0:58:32
And, therefore, by moving to a system of proportional representation, the parties become part of the process there.
0:58:39
And all the voter needs to know is what party do I most support.
0:58:43
Right?
0:58:43
And to your comment earlier about the nationalization of our local politics and how that has had deleterious effects on our local citizenry and our local solidarity, I I take your point and I concur with it.
0:58:58
Local matters do not really align along the same ideological spectrum or access as national matters do.
0:59:06
Right?
0:59:07
Your your view on housing may not have a whole lot to do with your view on public safety or on transit or on climate policy.
0:59:16
Right?
0:59:16
And yet we are effectively putting all of our political, competition, all of our political differences through a primary process that one party dominates.
0:59:29
You know?
0:59:30
And so I would say any electoral system that moves to a more competitive general election is the one that I would favor.
0:59:38
And there are just so many variations that, you know, that you can pick among many, and, again, it's all a matter of trade offs and preferences.
Anita Laremont
0:59:46
Mhmm.
John Ketchum
0:59:47
But, ultimately, the general election is where the voters should have the the most say.
Diane Savino
0:59:53
So so so you did say in your in your testimony that I think that this is your testimony, not Manhattan Institute's position
Steve Levin
0:59:59
Yes.
John Ketchum
0:59:59
It's mine.
Diane Savino
1:00:00
That you you would prefer the model of a nonpartisan primary as opposed to an open primary.
1:00:06
And my understanding of an open primary is, again, we have 1,100,000 re re unaffiliated voters in the city Of New York.
1:00:13
They are effectively disenfranchised right now because, as we all know, for the most part, the Democratic primary is the equivalent of the general election in this city.
1:00:23
Decisions are made in June, and everybody else is stuck with whoever the Democratic candidates are that are chosen in that party's primary.
1:00:30
So the the idea of an open primary where I'm a registered and nonaffiliated voter, and I live in a community where it's overwhelmingly a Democratic community, I wanna be able to vote in that democratic primary, but I do not want to register in that party.
1:00:46
I have no interest in becoming a democrat.
1:00:49
Why that why not that, model as opposed to a non prof a non partisan primary?
John Ketchum
1:00:56
Well, the general argument against, what we might call semi open primaries or fully open primaries, is that it allows for interference by bad faith actors, by people who, you know, want to just register or or want to interfere with the deliberations of a particular party without committing to
Tiya Gordon
1:01:16
that party.
Diane Savino
1:01:16
Now because we don't have an over so we we're seeing we saw it happen, you know, allegedly in Westchester last year where tens of thousands of people reregistered as Democrats participate in the congressional primary.
1:01:28
So in order to avoid that, if you don't require people to enroll in that party so that they can vote in that primary, wouldn't that solve that problem?
John Ketchum
1:01:35
Well, that is a good counterargument to that.
1:01:38
As a matter of fact, Manhattan Institute polling shows that about 23% of, respondees said that they're registered as Democrats because they want their vote to count for something in the general election.
1:01:52
There are many different types of of primary of open primary, as I say, across the country.
1:01:57
The the semi open version just allows a, unaffiliated voter to pick one of the two parties.
1:02:05
A fully open version allows for, anyone to participate in any prime so if I'm a, you know, a registered Democrat, I could participate in the Republican primary.
1:02:15
That, some people say, is is interfering.
Diane Savino
1:02:18
That that would be the equivalent of party rating.
1:02:20
Well, right.
1:02:20
Without without actually doing the reregistration.
1:02:23
So I I think I mean, I can speak for myself.
1:02:25
I would not support that model.
1:02:26
But I think the and I don't wanna take up the entire time.
1:02:29
But I think the open primary where people are allowed to vote in that in one party primary, I think might make more sense.
1:02:36
But I'm certainly willing to read the the rest of your testimony to get a better understanding of it.
1:02:40
Thank you.
1:02:41
Thank you.
1:02:41
And I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
1:02:42
Oh,