Your guide to NYC's public proceedings.
Q&A
A discussion on the root causes of low voter turnout
2:21:23
·
3 min
Commissioner Diane Savino questions political scientist Oscar Pocasangre about why voter participation remains low despite numerous reforms like public campaign financing and ranked-choice voting.
Pocasangre suggests the root problem is structural: the two major parties are not offering what voters want, and primary reform is just a "band-aid."
He argues that electoral systems that allow for more parties to participate meaningfully, like proportional representation, are associated with higher turnout.
- Savino asks why turnout hasn't increased despite multiple reforms aimed at encouraging participation.
- Pocasangre replies that research shows such reforms have marginal effects because the core problem is a lack of compelling choices from the major parties.
- He suggests that a system with more viable parties, like proportional representation, would do more to increase turnout by giving more voters a reason to participate.
Diane Savino
2:21:23
A question for the, for the professor from Columbia.
2:21:27
So I'm just curious.
2:21:29
You're an expert on this.
2:21:30
I'm not.
2:21:31
But I have run a few campaigns in my life.
2:21:33
So when you run a when you run a primary, campaigns are very simple.
2:21:37
Right?
2:21:37
You want to only talk to voters that you can reasonably predict are gonna come out to vote, likely voters or in a primary, they're triple prime voters.
2:21:45
You build a campaign around that narrow slice of the electorate.
2:21:49
And over the years, I've heard a million reasons why people don't vote.
2:21:52
So first, was money.
2:21:53
So we introduced campaign finance reform in the city.
2:21:55
It was a one to one match, a four to one match.
2:21:58
Now it's an eight to one match.
2:21:59
With each successive election cycle, less people are voting.
2:22:02
So it's not the money, obviously.
2:22:03
Right?
2:22:04
We are, let me see.
2:22:05
We instituted ranked choice voting.
2:22:07
It has not increased participation.
2:22:09
Although everyone told us it would increase voter participation, it has.
2:22:12
So you don't think that opening up the opportunity for other voters and not just speaking to that narrow slice of the electorate, which is what campaigns do, you don't think that might potentially increase voter participation?
Richard R. Buery Jr.
2:22:26
Please please don't please don't speak from the argument.
2:22:29
Yeah.
2:22:29
Please.
Diane Savino
2:22:29
They come up and testify.
2:22:31
I'll ask you questions, Tim.
Oscar Pocasangre
2:22:32
The evidence we have is that the increases in turnout are marginal, and it speaks to your question of you know, we have all these reforms, and turnout doesn't seem to go up that much.
2:22:41
I think that's more a structural problem of the parties are not offering much that the voters want.
2:22:47
That is not something that will be changed with primary reform.
2:22:50
That's something that would be changed more with the elect electoral system reform.
2:22:54
So allowing more parties to participate actively and meaningfully in elections, comparably from around the world, that's, one thing that we know, increases turnout.
2:23:05
So countries that switch to systems that allow for more parties, they they see a substantial increase in turnout.
2:23:11
But these are these are marginal changes.
2:23:14
I think they're band aids to the system.
2:23:16
Yeah.
Diane Savino
2:23:16
So so then perhaps you can explain.
2:23:20
How do we get more people to participate?
2:23:23
We have all of these reforms that we put in place.
2:23:25
We are spending boatloads of money.
2:23:27
It's almost criminal the amount of money we're spending on these campaigns.
2:23:30
Mhmm.
2:23:30
And and that's tax that's taxpayer money.
2:23:33
Not to mention the independent expenditures that are done by other people.
2:23:37
And yet, we're still only talking to a narrow slice of the Democratic party in a Democratic primary, same thing in a Republican primary, a very narrow slice of voters because we know they're the ones who are gonna turn out to vote.
2:23:50
How do we expand that so we take that money that we're spending, and we're reaching more voters?
Oscar Pocasangre
2:23:57
Part of the problem is to win an election, you just need one more vote than the other person, and that's part of the electoral system that we have in The United States.
2:24:06
A different type of electoral system, which are associated with higher levels of of turnout, would be things like proportional representation, for instance, with I
Diane Savino
2:24:16
didn't hear what you said.
2:24:16
Sorry.
2:24:17
Repeat that.
Oscar Pocasangre
2:24:17
Are used throughout the world.
2:24:20
Those do engage more voters because even if you only get 10% of the vote, your party will still have some representation, so everyone has some incentive to participate as well.
2:24:31
We also get stronger and healthier parties, and parties are organizations that have this mobilizing infrastructure and have, connections and strong linkages with with voters.
2:24:43
That's what get voters to participate and to feel represented in a party.
2:24:48
Yeah.
Diane Savino
2:24:48
In an ideal world, the problem is the parties themselves are structured in a way they protect their own interests, which is generally to reelect their incumbents and to shut out other party members because they're not loyal to them.
2:25:00
It's a challenge.
2:25:01
Right.
2:25:01
I we can do this all night.
Jim Walden
2:25:03
Don't know.
Carl Weisbrod
2:25:03
Yeah.
2:25:03
Yeah.
2:25:03
But
Gale Brewer
2:25:04
you have to say
Diane Savino
2:25:04
as a as a someone who does this for a living
Shams DaBaron
2:25:07
Yeah.
Diane Savino
2:25:07
From a different perspective.
2:25:08
Thank you.
Richard R. Buery Jr.
2:25:08
Thank you so much.