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Q&A
Council member Ayala questions DSS on EBT skimming and chip card implementation
1:17:07
ยท
4 min
Council member Diana Ayala engages in a Q&A session with DSS officials, primarily First Deputy Commissioner Jill Berry and Administrator Scott French, about the ongoing issue of EBT benefit skimming. The discussion covers the difficulties in identifying skimming locations, efforts to implement chip card technology, and the urgency of addressing this problem to protect benefit recipients.
- DSS officials explain limitations in accessing EBT data and challenges in pinpointing skimming locations
- The conversation highlights ongoing collaboration between NYC and state agencies to implement chip card technology
- Ayala expresses frustration with the slow progress and emphasizes the need for urgent action to protect vulnerable benefit recipients
Diana Ayala
1:17:07
Are you able to tell at this point?
1:17:10
I mean we've we've been discussing the skimming situation for a number of years now.
1:17:14
Is is there a way to be able to determine where the original skimming occurred?
1:17:19
So if it if it happened at a local, you know, at a I don't know, whatever supermarket of your choosing, and it happened there multiple times, are you able to tell that or are you just are you just able to tell that a new car, you know, where the funding was used?
1:17:34
So if it was used in another state or if it was used, you know, Upstate New York or whatever.
1:17:39
That part you can tell, but are you able to determine where the skimming occurred?
Jill Berry
1:17:45
The EBT information is that we have access to is very limited.
1:17:50
This is a contract that's held by the state and the data is held by the state.
1:17:53
So we have some limited access to the data, but we do not have access to all of the data.
1:17:59
And the skimming doesn't always happen at the physical location where the person is using their card with a skimming device.
1:18:07
Some of it is happening through unfortunately spoofing campaigns, phishing campaigns where people might be inadvertently providing providing information to bad actors that allows those bad actors to to take their benefits.
1:18:23
And in some cases it might just be a coincidence that people are using the same grocery store over and over again.
1:18:30
And that may not be how the bad actors are getting access to to the data.
Diana Ayala
1:18:35
Wow.
1:18:36
You you mentioned that the DSS has been working with the state on, you know, supporting these pieces of legislation.
1:18:45
I mean, how aggressive are those conversations?
1:18:48
Because I the state can hold a bill for years.
Jill Berry
1:18:53
We we have communicated regularly with OTDA and we can continue to communicate regularly with OTDA the importance of the need for chip cards.
1:19:04
We're not just working through the New York State legislation.
Diana Ayala
1:19:09
Okay.
1:19:11
Are those
Jill Berry
1:19:11
conversations fruitful?
1:19:14
Like are they have they been receptive?
1:19:18
I think that that our partners at OTDA definitely agree with us that that chip cards are necessary are necessary to protect benefits for clients?
Diana Ayala
1:19:30
I mean I think we all agree that those that those are necessary.
1:19:33
I'm just trying to figure out where the sense of urgency is in rectifying this because it's probably more cost effective to just replace the cards than it is to have to replace the benefits.
1:19:42
And it's inhumane to, you know, remove that funding from the state budget while we still have not rectified the problem to begin with.
1:19:52
So it's like we're like the dog chasing his own tail you know at this point.
1:19:56
I'm trying to figure out where we can be helpful in pushing and I'm happy to you know to submit and to you know speak to my colleagues at the state, but I'm trying to decipher whether or not the conversations that DSS has been having, you know, with Ulta, you know, separately have been, you know, positive and do you feel confident that we're moving in the right direction to, you know, address this issue as soon as possible.
Scott French
1:20:24
Yeah.
1:20:25
I do feel that the conversations we've had that had with them have been positive and understanding this is the way in which we need to go.
1:20:32
Just like at the city level, at the state level, agencies need to work through their processes as to, you know, how those things are approved and move forward.
1:20:40
But we are not getting any sort of pushback on the need to be able to moving towards the chip, you know, technology, and that that is actually the answer to really address the skimming issue for everyone across the state.
1:20:53
And I can say we're not the only locality advocating for this.
1:20:58
You know, all of the social services districts are equally advocating for a transfer to the chip technology to protect individuals and their benefits.
Diana Ayala
1:21:06
I mean, with all of the technology that we pay for and, you know, this is 2025.
1:21:13
I I I would assume that that would be something so simple.
1:21:16
I'm gonna allow council member Kaban a couple of more questions.