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Q&A
Council Member Williams questions the effectiveness of CMS groups and evaluation methods
3:54:31
·
3 min
Council Member Nantasha M. Williams engages in a detailed discussion with Commissioner Keith Howard about the effectiveness of Crisis Management System (CMS) groups in reducing gang and gun violence. Williams expresses concern about the methods used to evaluate these programs and pushes for more concrete benchmarks and evidence-based approaches.
- Williams criticizes the use of statistics like canvassing operations and shooting responses as indicators of effectiveness
- She emphasizes the need for better coordination among CMS groups and sharing of best practices
- The discussion reveals a lack of transparency in the evaluation process, with Williams mentioning past difficulties in accessing contract information
Nantasha M. Williams
3:54:31
Okay, so you mentioned this is now to the Office of Neighborhood Safety.
3:54:36
You mentioned a lot of really good stats on the different things that the CMS groups have been doing and I think these statistics are really good, but I'm more so interested in the benchmarks or any methods you're using to determine efficacy Just because they did, you know, a thousand canvassing operations doesn't mean that they're effectively reducing gang and gun violence.
3:55:04
Just because they did x amount of shooting responses that I personally hate.
3:55:08
I personally hate shooting responses.
3:55:10
Personally hate.
3:55:11
I don't think and the problem is is that in their contracts they're required, the agency requires them to do these silly things that don't reduce gun violence.
3:55:19
So just because you had x amount of shooting responses doesn't mean that you stopped gun and gang violence in your community.
3:55:26
So what methods or benchmarks are you or do you have to determine whether or not these CMS groups are being effective in their work?
3:55:38
Because just rattling off stats to me is not enough because, you know, there needs to be more.
Keith Howard
3:55:47
So not only do we have ONS team out there working with our CMS groups, but we also have our indicators, our key indicators which is a benchmark that you just described and what data
Nantasha M. Williams
3:56:04
What are the indicators?
3:56:05
I just want to say maybe I should say this disclaimer like I have a complex relationship.
3:56:09
I was on a board for a local CMS group and so I love them.
3:56:14
I just think there needs to be a more central focus.
3:56:19
Other cities and states, the way that they deal with their CMS groups is completely different.
3:56:24
I understand New York City is a huge city and so inherently the system might look a little bit different but it's siloed, disjointed, one group has great mental health services, another group, you know, you go to Man Up, they do great with workforce, you go to life camp, they're great with mental health, but how do you essentially like cross share these great things that they're doing?
3:56:48
It's just there's no coordination.
3:56:50
So yes, I don't what are the community indicators?
3:56:53
Like how do you determine whether or not they're effective?
3:56:55
Because again, I don't think being able to say that they did x amount of shooting responses and they canvassed x amount of neighborhoods is enough to determine whether or not they are effectively reducing gang and gun violence in our communities.
Keith Howard
3:57:09
So we look at the data.
3:57:10
The data tells the story.
Nantasha M. Williams
3:57:12
Yeah, but with data, right?
3:57:14
You have data and then oftentimes you benchmark that data with some type of methodology behind the data to determine whether or not it's meeting a goal.
3:57:22
Like just rattling off numbers is just not enough to determine whether or not a program is effective.
Keith Howard
3:57:28
So, I'm not just rattling off numbers, these come from evidence based approaches.
Nantasha M. Williams
3:57:32
What is the evidence based approach that you use?
3:57:34
That's what I'm
Farah N. Louis
3:57:35
trying to get I want to
Nantasha M. Williams
3:57:35
understand the back end of the methodology that you actually use to evaluate these programs and I'd never get that.
3:57:42
Even when ONS was in Mach J, we had to foil.
3:57:46
I always talk about this.
3:57:46
We had to foil documents to even look at their contracts.
3:57:49
This the agencies wouldn't share any information.
3:57:52
So how am I supposed to advocate or even be able to evaluate what you're doing if I don't even know what their standards are, what you are holding them accountable for?
Keith Howard
3:58:01
I would be happy to sit down with you and your team to go over methodology that
Nantasha M. Williams
3:58:07
you Okay, I can move on from that question.
3:58:09
I know we have a hearing coming up on that.